Saturday, March 16, 2013

In All Seriousness

I've often wondered if there are little groups of men who get together, paint signs, protest, and refuse to go to work or buy power tools because they want to stand up for "mens rights". Is there such a thing? Is there a movement of guys who hate being expected to earn a living, be able to fix things, and be tough and manly?

This makes me raise the question that I'm sure many of you have raised yourselves. What is the LDS feminist movement? I would sincerely like to hear the true beliefs or feelings of those who consider themselves Mormon feminists so that I may better understand where this stemmed from and what needs to be addressed. This movement has caused me to do some extra reading and find out what the LDS church really says about women. I discovered that my favorite theme (perhaps because it applied to me personally) was motherhood. Here are some of my favorite quotes on motherhood found in LDS talks. I should have been more broad in my selection of authorities, but these ones just resonated with me. They are my favorite because they explain God's doctrine of the family so clearly and beautifully that they're indisputable. So please, before you get offended, just take it from those who are spokespersons for the Lord. If you're already offended, just keep reading. You're going to like these.

My thoughts tonight are specifically centered on women and their unique and beautiful role in the plan of happiness. 

Julie B Beck: 

"Knowing and defending the divine roles of women is so important in a world where women are bombarded with false messages about their identity. These voices offer a counterfeit happiness, and as a result, many women are miserable, lonely, and confused. The only place Latter-day Saint women will learn the whole and complete truth about their indispensable role in the plan of happiness is in this Church and its doctrine.
The things women can and should do very best are championed and taught without apology here. We believe in the formation of eternal families. That means we believe in getting married. We know that the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. That means we believe in having children."

I highly recommend this talk. It's called What Latter-day Saint Women do Best: Stand Strong and Immovable. The entire thing is empowering and enlightening. I love how bold Sister Beck is! 

Sister Beck also has a very well known talk called Mothers Who Know. Yes, it was very controversial. But the Lord doesn't change His doctrine. I believe that because the world is shifting so far away from the truths we have always held dear to us, the difference between women of the world and women of the Lord is becoming far more prominent. This makes it more difficult to be a woman of faith and to stand immovable. Here are a few quotes from her excellent address.

"Mothers who know desire to bear children. Whereas in many cultures in the world children are “becoming less valued,”2 in the culture of the gospel we still believe in having children.President Ezra Taft Benson taught that young couples should not postpone having children and that “in the eternal perspective, children—not possessions, not position, not prestige—are our greatest jewels.”4 Faithful daughters of God desire children. Some women are not given the responsibility of bearing children in mortality, but just as Hannah of the Old Testament prayed fervently for her child (see 1 Samuel 1:11), the value women place on motherhood in this life and the attributes of motherhood they attain here will rise with them in the Resurrection (see D&C 130:18). Women who desire and work toward that blessing in this life are promised they will receive it for all eternity, and eternity is much, much longer than mortality. There is eternal influence and power in motherhood."

I just can't get enough of this talk. Read the whole thing! All I can do is add my testimony that I believe there is so much power in motherhood. The blessing of creating a human body and influencing that spirit's life more than anyone else possibly could is a huge responsibility. Do you realize that the Lord has placed the responsibility of shaping the views, beliefs and destiny of the entire human race in the hands of mothers? There is no greater role! I am grateful for the women in my life who don't need the praise of the world, but simply the approval of the Lord as they live their humble lives of service and discipleship. Motherhood brings true joy. Joy which can not be found anywhere else. 

My sincere apologies to those I may have offended. I know it is easy to offend when writing about such a sensitive subject. I feel it is my job as member of the Lord's church to stand steadfast and immovable in defense of the most important part of God's plan- the family.

*An important side note: I am very close to many incredible women who have struggled with infertility. I feel deeply for them and know that they deserve no judgment or criticism. So many women desire so deeply to have something that seems to come so easily to others. If you are facing this challenge, please know that I love you and am praying for your peace and happiness. I do not desire to hurt anyone and especially those going through this hardship. I know the Lord has incredibly important missions for ALL of His children, whether that is through the opportunity of motherhood or some other avenue.  




42 comments:

  1. The priesthood is an amazing way to bless others. Why shouldn't women desire that?

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  2. Hi Nicole,
    I am a 32 year old woman who cannot have children because of physical limitations. I am trying to understand what my role is in the church. I liked a lot of things about that talk, but I struggle to know where I fit. I would like to be able to contribute more in church because I'm *not* going to be able to raise children in the same way (if at all), and I think it's important to be able to make a space for women like me to participate more broadly in church roles, and to define ourselves by things other than our ability to parent.
    I have been told by other women that helping with their kids "counts" as being a mother, and that feels icky and false to me. It is not the same thing, and we all know it. I need to believe there is room at God's table for someone like me, and that someday we will not be given roles on the basis of biology which may or may not function. I hope that makes sense. I think being a parent (mom or dad) is one of the most amazing, difficult and profound experiences any person can have, and I hope that you have all the support in the world. :)

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    1. Al, thank you so much for your comment. My adoptive mother was not able to have children until just now- a miraculous blessing 21 years after she was married. My heart is full of love for all women who are full of so much faith and yet are tried with these difficult trials. Whether we are blessed with motherhood in this life or not, I KNOW the Lord has a plan for each of us here! Thank you for being so courageous and inspiring!

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    2. *hugs!* Thank you for your kindness and understanding. It makes a really big difference to people like me. :)

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  3. I am 33, and have secondary infertility (I have one biological son, but could not conceive after that). The cost of infertility treatments, adoption, and even foster care are exorbitant. There is just no way I can afford any of those. So what then? And please, do not say, "At least you have one." Those are quite possibly the worst words a person can say to me (or anyone else with SI!).

    I have always considered myself a strong, faithful woman. But in the LDS church, the emphasis is placed SO strongly on being a mother, I just keep wondering where the women with no children fit in. I believe the Lord made women strong for a reason. We are every bit as intelligent, quick thinking, devoted, and faithful as any man. So why are we then denied the blessings of leadership? Why am I, as a mother, not able to give MY OWN CHILD a blessing when he is ill or troubled? Why must everything we do as women be approved by the men? I do not believe this is the Lord's way. Perhaps at one time it was easier to have the men in charge in the church. Women have long been put in a secondary role in the world. But times have changed. Perhaps it is time for women to take a stand. To show we have many, many more talents than simply bearing and rearing children. To be a stronger example and role model for young women and girls. I am a Daughter of God, and a daughter should have all the rights and privileges as any of His sons.

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    1. Sarah, I am a woman and a member of the church and I don't struggle at all with my role as a woman. The Lord has not made it necessary for women in this life to have the Priesthood, and if you think that is a fault of the church, then you are highly mistaken. The Lord leads His church and if it was His will to give women the Priesthood, we would have it. You can't think that you know better than the prophet of our church who communicates directly with God what God's will or way is. You can't pick and choose what you agree with, and I agree that women have a place in the church as more than just mothers. You are looking at things from a mortal perspective. Here not everyone will get married or be able to have children, but in the next life, we will all have that because that is the Lord's plan for His children.

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    2. Hi Rachel, I am a woman and a member of the church and I don't struggle at all with my role as a woman, either, because being a woman is awesome. I DO struggle with how the church wants to define my womanhood, because apparently my Number One Job here on earth is to be a wife and mother and it doesn't look like either of those things are going to happen. It's great that you are a wife and mother, but I think it's pretty presumptuous to lecture others when you are coming from a place of privilege. You get to say things like "you are looking at things from a mortal perspective" because everything has worked out for you so far. It's all well and good to say, "Oh, you'll get to when you're dead. Don't worry" when you're the one who doesn't have to wait until you're dead to fulfill the Lord's plan for you.

      It's not always about the priesthood or not having the priesthood. The fact is, men make almost all the significant policy decisions in the church, from the top all the way to the bottom. In my mind, the priesthood means the actual keys of the priesthood, yet men are in charge of things that will never involve exercising any of those keys. Why does someone need the priesthood to balance a ward's budget? Or give the girls in YW similar funding as the Scouts? Or serve as a district leader on a mission? Why do you need a priesthood holder present at every activity (even Relief Society activities?) Yes, some bishops are totally great, and they involve other members of the ward (like the RS and YW Presidents) in their decisions. But some bishops aren't, which mean the women in their wards have exactly ZERO say about what goes on.

      Church history is full of examples of women and men suggesting positive changes and leaders listening and responding. And yet for some reason, if people do the *exact same thing* today, they immediately get accused of not understanding how the Lord works. Did Emma Smith not understand how the Lord works when she suggested starting the Relief Society in the first place? If she were to have suggested it in 2013, would she have other women lecturing her about how THEY don't struggle with their roles as women, so why was she?

      Different opinions don't equal sinful opinions :)

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    3. RU, (no offense, just stepping up on the soap box for a moment)

      The church doesn't define womanhood as being a wife and a mother, they have said it is important to do so, but hasn't said you are a failure if you don't.
      I don't have kids And I am single. And with being an older sister, it has been difficult in the pass, but now I am not bothered by it. Everyone in the world has a different purpose and role to fulfill. Not just in the church but in our Lives in General.
      My purpose and role is not to have children at this moment, but that doesn't mean I am a lesser member of society, or member of the church. I have never felt the church taught this at all. I have felt this from the members from time to time, Like I am doing something wrong. You know if I was prettier, thinner, smarter than maybe I would be married. But the church does not say this. Listen to General Conference it is all over in the messages. I am fine the way I am.
      The church is perfect as it stands. Things can be changed as needed, Programs and curriculum for instance, But the church is prefect. It is the member who are not. SO if your feel like you don't have a say, talk to your bishop. or leaders let them know you want to be valued in your ward. I have felt like I can voice my opinion to my bishops, the clerks, the EQP and they listen. what I suggest may not happen but they hear me. Just like a husband and a wife hear each other one does not dominate over the other, or at least they shouldn't.
      Things are done a certain way for a reason. Those callings are priesthood callings. They are just are. Maybe at some point they will be women clerks sure. but DL, ZL, Bishoprics those are priesthoods things. There are there at activities to protect you. I wouldn't want to be alone at my building busy setting up when some breaks in and good do something to me, or the building. would you?
      If things will change it is because the Lord wants them to change, not because the members write letters, picket, or just because the world says it needs equality. It is a "Mortal" perspective to say otherwise. members of the church need to see things with Eternal eyes.

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  4. I don't think I can say it any better than Al or Sarah did. I can't get pregnant. My husband and I also recently came to the realization that we can't even adopt or foster, that we are just not supposed to have children at all right now. So are we not allowed to be happy? Can't we find true happiness with each other, and with other things that fulfill our lives? I really hope that you do not have infertile friends, or even know anybody at church with those struggles because your attitude is very hurtful and I don't think that is how our Heavenly Father feels.

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    1. Sarah, I am so sorry to have made you feel that way. If you knew me, you would know that I am in no way hostile toward those who aren't able to have children. My own adoptive mother was unable to have children for 20 years. Her faith has helped me understand a little better where you may be coming from. I most definitely believe that the Lord has created or will create opportunities in all of our lives to be blissfully happy!

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    2. Sarah, I don't know how you got that from this post. What you're not understanding is that some women CHOOSE not to have children or get abortions. You WANT to have children, and the Lord knows that. He knows the desire and intent of your heart - including your pain and frustration - and you shouldn't mistake not being able to have children or adopt or do infertility treatments for not WANTING to have children. There is a major difference.

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  5. To answer your first question, yes, there is such a thing as the Men's Rights Movement. Albeit, not as widespread as women's rights (seeing as men haven't been oppressed as women have.)

    One of my favorite talks ever given was by Chieko Okazaki, who talked about the structure of family and compared it to quilts. She said there was no wrong way to be a quilt, and no wrong way to be a family. I think the same thing is true for women, there is no wrong way to be a woman. However, during my time in the Young Women's program I never heard that once. Instead all I got were lessons about how the greatest thing I would ever do is marry a returned missionary and have kids, I was never taught that I should have my own dreams or career goals. I do have my own educational and career goals, and right now by boyfriend and I have decided to delay marriage and having kids because that is what is best for us. I am a feminist because I know that It is okay for me to want to do other things than bear children, I am of limitless value that is not defined by having or not having children.

    You are wrong in stereotyping that all Mormon feminists are just "jealous" of the priesthood. There is a common misconception that all feminists must be lesbians, man haters, or they just hate being a woman. None of that is true. It is possible to love being a woman and to be a feminist, all being a feminist means is that you want equal opportunity. I want the same options and opportunities that are given to my male counterparts without being guilted over choosing not to marry yet.

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    1. Thank you for your comment! I am definitely in the process of still learning what being a woman means to me and also learning about feminists. To be honest, my blog is really a place for me to express my thoughts and I apologize if the way I put them was misunderstood. I didn't realize so many people would be reading! :) I look forward to learning more about what feminists goals and beliefs are.

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    2. Don't worry, I wasn't offended :) I hope you don't feel like a bunch of angry women have come to attack your blog, because I certainly don't mean to make you feel that way and I'm sure that no one else wanted to make you feel bad, either. I just felt like commenting because the things you were saying were things I have heard time and time again, as "feminist" has come such a loaded term, and there are many misconceptions.

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  6. You say, "it does make me wonder why many of the women of the LDS have their panties all in a bunch because they don't like their role anymore." First, you express that you want to understand these women's point of view, but you concurrently mock then by being flippant with phraseology such as "panties all in a bunch." Second, you comment on "their role" as being exclusively motherhood. Womanhood and motherhood are definitely the same thing, and as the comments above reveal, the Church's synonymous treatment of the two is extremely painful for people who don't have kids.

    You might be surprised to know that these feminists whom you perceive as so radical are the women in RS with you, women who teach Sunday School and go to the temple and read the Book of Mormon and want the Church to treat them more equally. An example of this is the recent movement Let Women Pray in which hundreds of women wrote letters to GAs requesting that women pray in General Conference. Understand our role? We understand that we are women of God, women who are equal in His/Her sight and women who have just as much right to supplicate God on behalf of the entire worldwide congregation. This is just one small example of more rights that Mormon feminists are asking for. Is that so scary?

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    1. Thank you so much for your comment. I realized after having so many people read and comment that my thoughts were unorganized and at times hurtful and condescending. They were poorly written and for that I truly apologize. I should have written two separate posts on my love of motherhood and then on my views of the feminist movement in the LDS church. They are not concurrent thoughts and should have been better represented.

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  7. "...because they don't like their role anymore"
    Some of us never had the role to begin with. We were all promised that if we were pure and faithful, we would be provided (somehow) with a spouse and children. Thirty years of this and guess what: no dice. You cite all these glowing quotations about how women should rejoice in their roles as wives and mothers. Being a parent is no mean feat, and you do well to rejoice in your own parenthood. But I read them, and I look around me and say, What role? What am I to rejoice in? The faint hope I may find someone to marry while it's still possible for me to conceive children? The consolation prize of being forever an "auntie" to other people's children? Would you have me forever hold off on rejoicing in *any* role until my life is over, at which point (I'm told) I'm guaranteed a husband? If so, what point in being alive at all? What, In All Seriousness, do you think my role is?

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    1. Thank you for your comment- I truly appreciate your point of view. I am so sorry to have hurt you. I have many friends who are not able to have children or who have never married. They live beautiful and fulfilling lives and I know that they are incredible people. I still find joy in being able to have children, but I suppose I should have done it more tactfully so as not to offend others.

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  8. Do you like voting? Having the right to own property? To keep your paycheck when you work? Did you enjoy your education? Do you like being paid the same as your male counterparts? Do you like to be able to speak in public? Do you like the fact that a man can't legally beat or rape his wife anymore?
    Thank a few ladies in history who "painted some signs" and protested.

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    1. Rita, I apologize for the insensitive gesture. My intentions were not to demean the many women who have had incredible influence on the blessed way we are all able to live today. I appreciate their sacrifices and hard work.

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  9. I have struggled for a long time to figure out what my role in this life is. I used to believe that motherhood would be my role. My patriarchal blessing says as much. But as the years ticked by, I remained unmarried, childless and without a role to fill in Christ's Church. I prayed and pondered and studied and cried. I felt like I had been abandoned, that God's was the only love I would ever experience in this life. And when the pain was so great that I could hardly bear it, these words came to me: use this.

    And thus, I found my role. I will use the pain, frustration, and heartache that I have experienced to support others who are brokenhearted, to stand with those who have been marginalized, to speak up for the silenced and to pursue a better world in which there are no poor among us. I am glad that you have found joy and fulfillment in your role, please try to be glad for me in mine.

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    1. Maggie, I admire your courage to remain faithful when it has been so difficult. Thank you for inspiring and uplifting those in similar places in their lives and for making such a valuable contribution to the world.

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  10. I will turn 40 in four months. I have never been married despite completing "The Checklist"--seminary grad, YW Medallion, BYU, mission. I am still active. I serve willingly. Yet I will never have children, and odds are I will never marry. So my role is thus: bless the world with the gifts God has given me. And at the risk of sound conceited, those gifts are myriad.

    Would I love to have a family of my own? Of course. Would it make me happier than the life I have now? I certainly hope not, for to assume so is to minimize the life I have built for myself when the blessing of marriage and children did not happen. I *know* God is pleased with my life, and that He blesses me for continuing to serve and attend a church that so very often--intentionally or not--makes me feel "less than."

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    1. Jules, thank you so much for courageously fulfilling your life's mission. I am so grateful for inspiring examples of women who make the very best of what they have- something I'm still working on.

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  11. I married at 29 (kind of squeaked in there) and was happily blessed with fertility. Fourteen years later I have two incredible daughters. But I was also blessed with other abilities--when I married I was 4 years in to an extraordinarily priveleged PhD education at an Ivy League school. When I finally walked the stage to pick up my doctoral degree I had my 3 year old on my hip nesting against my 9-month pregnant belly. I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to have a foot in both the mothering and the professional worlds. It's been a wickedly difficult balance that has often teetered but has also allowed me to keep my sanity. I cherish my time with kids when I come home to them after being at work, and I cherish my adult professional life after cooking and cleaning and mothering and so on. I have chosen to work at 80% time to give me enough flexibility to be there for my kids before and after school when they need me. Another privilege. When my husband was called as Bishop, our life balance was thrown off severely. I was necessarily pulled into a more traditional role than I was happy with, but we made it work. I can't tell you how often I imagined a world where a husband and wife might be called as co-Bishops. Or Mission Presidents and their wives as co-Presidents. Then the wards and missions (full of both men and women) could benefit from the leadership of both genders, and individual couples could work out their own balance of family and church service that worked best for them. I just want my daughters to grow up in a world where their roles are defined by ability and desire, not by biology.

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    1. Tania, I can't imagine such a full life of service! You sound like an incredible woman! Thank you for your insightful comments.

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  12. After extensive prayer, I concluded that the Lord wanted me to stop at two children so that I would also have time to devote to a career that involved helping others, including writing and speaking to help moms have more balanced lives, rather than devoting too much of themselves to the care of others. I know my identity. Being a mom is part of that, but I have other important things to do. That's been shown to me time and again. I wonder, if being a mom is the natural role for all women, why do we constantly need to be told that it is natural? We are not stupid or foolish, and we know ourselves. Perhaps motherhood is not the natural role for every woman. if it was, we wouldn't need to be told how to be natural all the time.

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  13. This post makes me so terribly sad and lonely, I cannot even express how much. I was married in the temple twelve years ago. We have not been able to have children. We just went through a failed adoption four months ago. We do not know when we will be able to try or be able to afford another adoption again. I cannot even watch or listen to conference talks or LDS talks such as these without completely falling apart, so I have had to stop watching all together. I am one of the women that is marginalized in these talks--one of the women who has fallen through the cracks of LDS culture. Talks like these, and the opinions you've expressed, are THE reason I have had to step away from a church and community I love. All I can ask is to please have some compassion for those who were also raised to believe the same things, and have found a silent God on the other side of their prayers. Comments from leaders about a woman's role being a mother can be very hurtful. I agree with Jules, my role is to "bless the world with the gifts God has given me."

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    1. Oh Shar, don't step away from the Lord! In your deepest pain, only He can offer you the comfort that no-one else can. You must understand that the church stresses the importance of CHOOSING to have children, and clearly you would have had children if you could. But there are so many women that want to and can't, and don't for a second think that your desires don't matter to the Lord or that you don't matter in His church. Your words made me so sad! You could bless the lives of so many women who struggle with the same thing, but not if you distance yourself from a church that needs your gifts and abilities. Sometimes God is quiet, but He is not silent. Sometimes He says no or not yet, and while I don't always understand His will and His ways and why He doesn't answer our prayers for good things all the time, He knows what He's doing, and we just have to trust that! You have to read this post http://rachelromero.blogspot.com/2011/12/12-1-11-beautiful-heartbreak.html

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  14. My dear, I was a stay-at-home-mom for my children's sake. We were lucky to afford for me to be there. I didn't like being isolated and doing boring housekeeping and repetitive child care, but I did so because I love my children, and my husband was so busy in his work, I knew he wasn't going to pitch in just so that I could have some career development. I didn't see it as important, and now our children have outgrown their need for my daily care, I am struggling to do the entry level things that get a career started. In this economy, it's not easy, and I will never be able to make up for lost time.

    Motherhood is important, and I've never has even a moment's regret that I devoted my time to my children, but it doesn't take up one's whole life. Now I find there is more to our earth life that I would like to experience, and I am unprepared for it because I chose according to what I was taught as a young woman, that I was lucky to be able to devote all my time to my family without distraction. By all means, be a good mother, but learn from my error, and take better care of yourself, and plan for some way to be productive after the kids move out.

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  15. Who are you to question and ridicule the revelation of others? I do not have children and don't plan to have children. This was not a decision I came to lightly. It is a decision I made based on my relationship with God. You assume all women who choose not to have children don't know what God wants for them. But you are not in a position to claim that you know what God wants everyone to do. You don't get to tell me, or anyone what God wants for their lives. The fact that you feel so comfortable judging women you don't know disturbs me. Take President Uchdorf's counsel and stop judging people you don't know.

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    1. Expressing an opposing opinion is not judging. Judging is saying, You are a bad person or you are going to hell. If you made that choice with God, then you shouldn't let someone's words make you feel guilty. You accuse her of judging, but return judgment with judgment. Read the Family Proclamation and you will see what the Lord's plan is for all of His children, you included. In the church we don't get to pick and choose which things apply to us and which things don't, and very rarely does the Lord tell his children to do something contrary to what He has already told everyone else to do.

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    2. I apologize if you felt I was ridiculing revelation received by others. I never meant to do anything of the sort. I appreciate your honesty- it has helped me understand a little better where other people are coming from.

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  16. My comment is for Shar (and others who have experiences like hers). There is no way for me to know exactly what you are going through, but it sounds an awful lot like my experience with infertility. As a leader at girls' camp a number of years ago, I remember just sobbing through the testimony night but not for the reasons everyone else was. I was hurting inside. It was unbelievably difficult for me to be the shining example when it felt like God was ignoring my pleas. My heart was anywhere but there. I want to tell you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. In fact, there's no such thing as the tunnel. The light is always with us, inside us. You are God's child and that means you have God in you. That light is never far away. Jesus will heal every broken heart. He will never desert you. He will be there for you every time you call on Him. Even though you have stepped away from the church, please cling to your relationship with the Savior. Because of the atonement He knows exactly what you are going through and more importantly how to succor you. That is His role. Women are strong. God knows this. That's why he allows us to go through the refiner's fire in a multitude of ways. My heart has so much compassion for you, Shar. In fact, I can say that I love you. As women we must love each other and try to understand that not everyone's mortal existence is going to be the same. We have the right to personal revelation and a path that is uniquely our own.

    On a secondary note, Nicole (the author of this blog) is a friend of mine and I love her too. She would never intentionally hurt anyone's feelings or try to offend anyone. She is trying to understand the complexities of life just like we all are. She has tapped into a topic that is very emotional and begs discussion. As blogs go, that's what the point is, I guess. Thank you, Nicole, for allowing us all to join in your discussion and offer our viewpoints.

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  17. I understand you're feeling upset about some of the responses you're getting, I'm very sorry if you feel ganged up on. But for what it's worth, that feeling of being ganged up on is what many LDS women who express feminist sentiments feel themselves (I had an LDS coworker who tried to have me fired when she found out I was a feminist...it stung). I feel like you made some pretty sweeping generalizations of your feminist sisters in the church, about what they must feel and think and want towards "our role" (a great deal of it untrue, frankly), and when they expressed hurt or gave examples of how the rhetoric leaves them feeling left out you called foul. That's not really fair.

    I appreciate that you want to stand up for the family. I'm sorry that you think feminists are somehow against the family. As one myself, my quibbles are not with the role of women as mother but with the idea of the ONLY role for women as mothers. Others have expressed the limitations of this idea (infertility, personal revelation, singleness, etc.) much more eloquently than I have, but I will just add the role of mother is wonderful. But it's not the only one we can or should play. And speaking of women largely as "roles" to be filled, as jobs to be done, rather than as people in their own right is one of the main issues of mormon feminists. Women are not roles, they are individuals - I think that's where the backlash is coming from. And it's not, in my opinion, an undue criticism, but it's not a criticism of you, just the broad rhetoric emphasizing our "roles" rather than our selves.

    Thank you for being willing to speak up about your beliefs and defend them! Just allow others the right to push back and disagree. Hopefully through discussion we can all come to a place of better mutual understanding.

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    1. Thank you so much for your comments. This post was unexpectedly read by so many who I don't know personally. I am trying to understand feminist views a little better so that we can all get along a little better. We probably have more common ground than we all realize. Thank you for not being hostile. I naively stereotyped those who call themselves feminists and feel foolish for doing so. I hope all readers will accept my sincere apologies for my insensitivity.

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    2. Don't take us to seriously either, we're not all humorless stereotypes ;) I think you just unintentionally poked a decided sore spot and a bunch of people flinched. Frankly if I had more experience with your sort of bluntness coupled with willingness to talk things out but still stand by your beliefs (rather than my Dreaded Coworker, yikes I have stories...) I'd be a much happier mormon in general! Thanks for hearing us out and responding so nicely and articulately. You have no idea how appreciated it is.

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    3. Ditto to smalldog -- I think your responses have been very kind, and everyone says things sometimes that they later wish they had phrased differently or not said. :)

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    1. Thanks for linking to those, I really like them!

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  19. Hi Nicole,
    I happened to come across your blog, and hope you don't mind if I comment. I'm impressed with the way you've handled some of the feedback you've been given--you're obviously a lovely person who is honestly seeking answers, and if you said something off-the-cuff that in retrospect sounded a bit insensitive, well, who hasn't been there? :)

    I'm a single, 34-year old LDS woman, active and happy in the church with a strong testimony of the gospel, and I'm also a pants-to-church wearing feminist, so you can imagine that I've given a lot of thought to these issues. There is something about being outside of the mainstream of LDS culture that leads one to notice issues they might not otherwise have considered, such as the role of women in the church.

    I came across an article written by Boyd Peterson (BYU/UVU professor, among other things) today that outlines many of my thoughts exactly. If you're interested, you might want to check it out:

    http://boydpetersen.com/2013/03/21/fourteen-years-later-a-response-to-the-priesthood-mens-last-best-hope/

    Best wishes in your continued explorations!

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